Sage Advice from a 40 Year Marketing Career – Joel Book

Announcer 0:01

This is Martech Interviews, a podcast from DK New Media, publishers of Martech, the leading publication for sales and marketing professionals to research, discover, and learn how technology is driving business results. Your host is Douglas Karr.

Douglas Karr 0:19

Well, welcome everybody to another in our interview series with Martech. And I have an amazing friend, colleague, gentleman, mentor, boy, all of these things sitting across from me in our offices, which is a real treat. I have Joel Book of Salesforce. How are you, sir?

Joel Book 0:37

Doug, it's such a pleasure to see you again. Thank you very much for the invitation. I'm not sure I'm worthy of all those accolades, but it's so fun to be able to sit down with you today. Thanks for the invitation.

Douglas Karr 0:50

Well, you deserve them. And you made an announcement here recently that shocked the world.

Joel Book 0:58

Well, I don't know that it shocked the world. Maybe a few of my colleagues in our industry were surprised to hear that I am retiring. August 1 is my official date of exit from Salesforce. I've had a blessed career, I think is the best way to say it. I'm now in my 41st year in marketing, the last 14 years of which have been at ExactTarget, and then of course, Salesforce for the last four years. So it's just been a highlight of my career.

Douglas Karr 1:32

Well, and having worked with you directly and indirectly at Salesforce, it was an absolute pleasure. And I'm not sure there's anybody who wouldn't say so that worked with you. You made a huge impact on that organization's culture.

Joel Book 1:46

Well, I think the thing that I feel so fortunate about is that I've really had a front row seat seeing the evolution of digital marketing, being a spokesperson for the industry, both at ExactTarget, and then now for the last four years here at Salesforce. It's been a pleasure to be not just a spokesperson, but a teacher. I think at the end of the day, that's probably the thing about my work here that I've enjoyed the most is teaching brands, teaching other marketing professionals, not just what's happening in the evolution of digital marketing, but what's possible. And as you know, Doug, as the number of communication channels and touch points has accelerated over the last five to 10 years, things move very, very quickly. And if you don't keep up, if you don't understand what's happening and learn from what other brands are doing, you can get left behind. And so it's been my pleasure to be that ambassador for digital marketing.

Douglas Karr 2:50

Well, and I think that you're saying something really important there, because when you look at the number of businesses and industries that are either shrinking or collapsing, a lot of it was due to their lack of investment into digital and, you know, really taking on the customer experience from the, you know, from the phone to the TV to the, you know, to everything that we're utilizing. So whether, whether, you know, my, my time was in newspapers and I always tell people that it wasn't a murder, it was a suicide, you know, that when we had the 40% profit margins, we weren't putting them in digital and we were watching folks like eBay pull our classifieds and, you know, and everything else. And, and now, nowadays it's the retailers, you know, we see here locally, even, you know, that, that folks are going under and, and I know internally we worked with some of them and they were, they refused to make the investment. And so that, that by not making that investment, they made themselves obsolete. And I think that's, that's the growing lesson here, right? Is the companies that are really leading the way are just making massive, you know, R and D investments into digital. And, uh, it's a, it's a lesson for every company.

Joel Book 4:09

It's a big lesson. It's an expensive lesson, unfortunately for some organizations, for some industries, Doug, that have had blinders on and refused to see what was happening around them. You talk about newspapers, but you're correct. Right now we're seeing major transformation happening in retail. We're seeing major transformation happening in B2B where many B2B organizations have now, uh, rightfully made the move to e-commerce because that's the way business buyers now want to buy, not necessarily, uh, buy a half million dollar articulated hauler. Uh, but they certainly may want to be buying some of the accessory items, uh, that go along with that particular product. So things are changing dramatically. Uh, I think one of the things that I've learned in, in the last 14 years is that if you don't, if you're on the brand side as, as a marketing sales customer service professional, and you don't put the customer first and really begin to understand what type of experience you're delivering to that customer, you not doing that is, is basically a death knell for your brand because today's customer, um, is, is also highly influential. You deliver a great customer experience. They will reward you by sharing their experience with others. They will reward you by renewing or repurchasing again. Um, you know, I like to say that as a guy that started out 40 years ago in direct marketing, uh, and custom publishing, uh, all marketing today is direct.

Douglas Karr 5:47

Yes.

Joel Book 5:48

Every single channel up to and including advertising, which can now be precision delivered to an individual where they are exposed to that ad on Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn, whatever the channel might happen to be. So I think one of the, one of the biggest changes I've seen in my career is this complete return to data driven, highly personalized, highly targeted, uh, messages that are delivered to that individual. That's why all marketing, uh, all customer service, all selling is direct.

Douglas Karr 6:21

Uh, it's a, that's a great lesson for everybody listening. I used to joke with people when I was doing direct mail that, you know, the time that we had was between the mailbox and the trash can, you know, and now that's splintered 800 different ways, because even as you're getting your mail, you're carrying your iPhone with you. Well, you are,

Joel Book 6:42

but what's, what's I have found is interesting. I look at some of our more innovative customers that are now using direct mail in combination with email and SMS before the catalog goes out via the mail. There's an SMS alert that comes out to the customer, letting him or her know catalog is in the mail, uh, special offers for you based on your previous purchases, uh, can be found in a link to this SMS message, or they're doing the same thing through email. So marketing and stereo or this coupling effect, as I call it, where you're using email in combination with direct mail or SMS or a targeted ad, this is what the smart brands are doing. And I think the retailers that get that, uh, are making huge headway in terms of preserving their customer base rather than standing by and watching it erode.

Douglas Karr 7:37

Yeah. It's, it's not an either or approach anymore. It's, we have customers fragmented and they, they choose their own communication methodologies, right?

Joel Book 7:47

Well, they do. And the, the smart marketers today understand that all customers are, are not alike, uh, and that they do, uh, access your brand through different channels. You and I are never going to be able to predict what those channels are. Maybe artificial intelligence over time will allow us to understand more about which channels Doug Carr prefers to engage with me through. And maybe we can inform marketing customer service messages accordingly to be able to cater to you through those channels that you tend to use most regularly. I think the thing that, that we've seen though, is that if you're going to be a really successful marketing professional today, and I would even extend that to customer service professional, you need to be able to have command over multiple channels, multiple touch points because your customer is connected to you through all of those. And that's one of the things that Salesforce that we have focused so hard on is delivering solutions to companies, be it marketing cloud service cloud, sales cloud, community cloud, and now commerce cloud, where all of these different solutions work together to be able to, to serve the customer.

Douglas Karr 9:04

And that's, and that's critical. I think the, um, the marketer of yesteryear, you know, we're, we're, we're a couple of gray haired guys sitting across from each other. Um, we were often able to craft the message, make it beautiful and put it out there, but we never had to respond to it. Right. You know, our sales teams responded and our support teams responded, but that wasn't public at that time. That was, you know, that was one-on-one conversations. And I think that, that this new, you know, stack, the marketing stack that you're talking about is great because it takes, it takes that you were talking about the customer that if you have an customer, they're going to go out on social and they're going to respond, or they're going to do word of mouth with a salesperson and it's going to impact sales. And nowadays you really do need that centralized, you know, look at the customer so that your salesperson is as intelligent about the relationship as your marketer is, as your customer support person is. Right.

Joel Book 10:05

That's, that's exactly the case. Um, you know, I like to say that the, the, it's not just the marketing stack, uh, you and I know what that looks like today, but I think increasingly it's the customer experience stack where you have marketing technology working hand in glove with customer service technology, sales technology. A lot of our customers today, like the Home Depot, for example, has taken our community cloud product and now stood up an online portal that stocked with content for the do it yourselfer because what the Home Depot understands is that as do it yourselfers, we want access to content that helps us retail the bathroom or learn how to do it. What are the materials I need? Give me access to the Home Depot specialist who can guide me through that process. What the Home Depot gets and what I think more brands are finally beginning to discover is that serving has become the new selling and that the brands that focus on the customer and cater the, to the customer's desire to be served, not sold. These are the brands that are really, um, developing very, very long-term customer loyalty, developing customer brand advocates. So back to your point, and these are individuals that if you experience for them, they will gladly share that with, with others. And so I think that's why you're beginning to see, you know, more, uh, dramatic focus on customer experience. I mean, McKinsey and company has done some great work in this whole area where they've talked about the business impact of automating customer journeys and personalizing customer journeys to deliver this end-to-end customer experience. Not just doing a great job during the, the product evaluation and selection process, but what do you do post purchase? That's why, as I said before, we're seeing more brands now using marketing technology in combination with, with service technology again to anticipate the customer's needs and interests and interest and cater to that.

Announcer 12:15

Uh, you know, as I see it, the,

Joel Book 12:17

the, the triangle offense of really effective customer experience today is data, really good technology or technologies that work together and content. I mean, you take those three components and you do a great job of using data to predict what type of information would be, Doug, based on where you're at in your journey with, you know, with my brand. Are you in the early stage where you're evaluating or are you a long time user and now need access to different kinds of services, different kinds of content? The better job I do predicting what's going to be a value to you and delivering that to you, the longer I'm going to hopefully be able to earn your business.

Douglas Karr 13:08

You blew me away when you mentioned Home Depot and I'll tell you why it's pretty funny. We didn't rehearse this for everybody listening, but, uh, literally this morning. So my, my, my daughter lives, I live in an A-frame and my upstairs is always warmer than my downstairs. You know, it's a typical problem. And, and, uh, we had an AC unit up there and I went kaput, you know, so I was evaluating new portable air conditioning units online. I'm a huge Amazon prime lover. You know, uh, I've ordered from walmart.com, which is pretty, is really starting to grab some market share as well. Um, but as I was doing searches, the only people that had an explanatory video on the model that I was looking on, it was a hair air conditioner was Home Depot. And it was a very, very, very general, you know, it wasn't a sales guy. It was just an associate. And he was walking through all of the features of it and everything else. And I got more information out of that little 45 second video, you know, than I did any of the other ones. And so it's just kind of incredible that you mentioned Home Depot because at seven o'clock this morning, I was watching a Home Depot

Joel Book 14:22

video. One of the things we've learned in the evolution of marketing and how digital has completely transformed marketing is that video in terms of different types of content, video continues to be the highest converting form of content.

Douglas Karr 14:38

Yeah.

Joel Book 14:38

Why? Because it's educational. The Home Depot was one of the first brands to actually stand up a YouTube channel that now has its entire collection of how to videos. The last statistic I think I recall, Doug, is that that entire collection of how to videos on the Home Depot's YouTube channel has had over 50 million views.

Douglas Karr 15:02

Wow.

Joel Book 15:02

And what they, what the Home Depot understands is that, again, if you teach the customer how to really do that project successfully, if you teach the customer what particular solutions are available, i.e. the air conditioner situation that you've just talked about, the greater job you do in earning their business.

Douglas Karr 15:28

Yes.

Joel Book 15:28

And for some brands that has become much more intuitive for them. Others are coming to that reality later. But serving has become the new selling. Our friend Jay Baer at Convince and Convert wrote a very powerful book several years ago called Utility. Yes. So for your listeners, I would urge them to check it out. Why OU Utility? And the basic premise of Jay's book was that successful marketing in this era of the connected customer is so much more about helping than it is about hyping. marketing and that the most successful marketing is that which really serves the customer. And that's why the Home Depot is a great example of that. And there are so many other brands out there that are also great examples. That's why, you know, my role at Salesforce as teacher has been to share those stories and use them in a way to help brands understand the changing dynamics of marketing in this era and what's possible.

Douglas Karr 16:34

You've spoken a lot about those changing, you know, what's changed with our industry, you know, for someone who's a veteran of the industry for 41 years. What hasn't changed? What what do marketers need to, you know, that 40 years ago, we were worried about and today we should still be worried about?

Joel Book 16:54

I think what there's a there are probably three things that haven't changed. One, the customer must be the centerpiece of your whole strategy. You can't sit in your in your cube or in your office and strategize about a new brand launch or a new product launch without having strong customer insight. That's why when I talked earlier about the triangle offense of customer experience, it really does begin with data. And back to your point, you can't have data scattered. You have to have one central repository of what you need to know about the customer to be able to understand what content. It might be information, invitations, offers, customer service, what would be most useful to that customer at this point in time. You really need to have a fundamental understanding of that. I think the other thing that hasn't changed is data. You and I grew up in direct marketing. Both of us spent a lot of time in direct mail marketing. You have to have ways to be able to acquire that data, whether it's explicitly where the customer gives it to us or implicitly by observing what events is that customer attending? What products or solutions are they browsing on the website? What videos are they accessing? That's an indication of what their what their needs might be. And now we're on the cusp of this whole new era of artificial intelligence, which I personally think, Doug, is going to change a lot of things. It's going to change the way in which our software products are engineered, because we will have in our particular case at Salesforce, we'll have Einstein embedded. Einstein is is is our artificial intelligence technology that will then be constantly learning. What's what's what's really important so that we can serve customers better. It will make salespeople more more productive, customer service people more responsive marketers, much more effective in terms of the campaigns that they're that they're executing. But I think the other thing that hasn't changed is is content. Now, Joe, our friend Joe Polizzi at the Content Marketing Institute deserves a lot of props for starting the Content Marketing Institute, because one of the things that Joe and his team clearly understand is that the way in which consumers or business buyers function today is that we have become really, really web savvy researchers.

Douglas Karr 19:38

Yes.

Joel Book 19:38

The brands that understand that stock their websites, stock their YouTube channels with content that makes it easy for us to inform ourselves. Nobody wakes up in the morning. If you're a consumer or business buyer, you don't wake up in the morning and say, geez, I hope today is the day somebody tries to sell me something. But back to your your comment earlier about the air conditioning situation, you didn't get on the phone and start calling the Home Depot or Lowe's or somebody like that. You started to research yourself. But that's the way consumers are wired. We want to serve ourselves first. We want answers to questions. And so the constant in modern era marketing is good content that is accessible to the consumer data, which allows us to understand and anticipate what the customer's needs are. And then technologies that allow us to really engage the customer in ways that that he or she wants to be engaged. Those, I think, are the three constants. But today's marketing or customer service professional really needs to be smart enough to understand how to have a customer first viewpoint in developing the different strategies and tactics to to serve that consumer.

Douglas Karr 21:02

Well, and with everything readily available to consumers and businesses to do that research online, you really do have to look at, you know, what is your competition doing that you're not? You know, it's I at times we've heard, especially in B2B, we've heard people say, well, you know, 90 percent of our business is word of mouth. And and I always come back and and I say, well, that's that's interesting. You know, but when you make that connection with someone, what do you think the first thing they do is, you know, that and and they go, well, what do you mean? And I said, well, you met me today. What's the first thing that you're going to do after I leave the office? Right. You know, well, you're going to look me up online. Sure. And you're going to say, is he legitimate? Does he know what he's talking about? Does he have authority in this space? And I always tell people that we have we have a customer, the Lifeline data centers, you know, and huge Midwest data center, really strong growth, everything. And Alex will tell you that as long as I'm on as long as I'm on the search page, I don't even care if it's number one. As long as I'm on the search page, that means that I'm going to get an opportunity to put in RFP. And that means I'm going to have an opportunity to sit at the table. And so when people come to the search page and find me and then they go to my site, I want to make sure that they see that I understand what their problem is. And so they're going to see the white papers and the infographics and the case studies that they need to say these are serious players, you know.

Joel Book 22:32

And that same philosophy, not philosophy, but that same dynamic extends over to brands. You and I have been in the business long enough to know that a brand is not necessarily what the brand says about themselves. It's what their customers say about them. 90% of consumers today and business buyers trust online reviews and ratings from their peers. Yes. That's why so many brands, one of my favorite examples, as you well know, over the years, I've loved to talk about Scott's Miracle Grow. Because Scott's is a textbook example of a consumer packaged goods brand that sells through channel partners, Lowe's, Home Depot, Walmart, True Value, Ace Hardware, etc. But one of the things that Scott's has done so expertly is serve their customers by providing content, information about what Scott's product to use. Let's just say it's Turf Builder, when to use it, and how to use it to get the best results. And they do that on their website. They send me an email. I just got one just over the weekend reminding me that now that we're in the throes of summer, now's the time to apply Summer Guard to your lawn. Here's when to apply it. Here's how to apply it. They send me an SMS. They call it a Scott's Alert. It's an SMS message also reminding me now's the time. And what Scott's is really smart about is that the very first time I came to their website, Doug, they invited me to register. Most brands don't do that. The reason that Scott's wanted me to register is because they wanted to know what zip code I reside in. Because with that single piece of data, all of the content on that website now changes for me so that they're delivering product information, but also user reviews and ratings about the products from people in my area. That is smart marketing. Scott's dominates the lawn and garden products industry.

Douglas Karr 24:49

I often share the story back. This is back when we were working together back then. But Scott's had, they were taking data from their customer service people regionally and pumping that back into their content. And so if, you know, I think it was a really sexy topic like grub alerts. Sure. You know, that if they all of a sudden saw a high call volume with a certain problem in a certain region, then they would push content and say, hey, you've got this problem in your region and here's the product to take care of it.

Joel Book 25:24

Brilliant. It is brilliant, but it's common sense marketing. Yes. Today, they are obviously plugged into all of the, you know, weather conditions, whether it be drought, flood, what have you, that may cause somebody to have problems in their lawn. And they use that data to then trigger specific messages that go out to their customers, alerting them to the potential for that problem. And if you have this problem, here's what to do. Have a question. Here's a link to speak to one of our Scott's product specialists. They're a textbook example of serving the customer, going back to our earlier conversation. And I think as far as consumer packaged goods brands, they do a lot of things really, really well.

Douglas Karr 26:08

And an amazing company that, because they work through, you know, channel distribution, tying that conversion back to that activity is a very difficult task for them. Attribution. Yeah.

Announcer 26:22

It

Douglas Karr 26:23

is. And so I think it shows that, you know, regionally, of course, they can see sales and observe, you know, what the reaction is to what they're doing. But I think it's a great example of this is a tough attribution model and they know it works. And they do have the data overall to back it up. And I think that's something that businesses get lost in today, too, is, well, how do I attribute that data? How do I attribute that data? And it's, I think we're getting closer. You know, we're getting closer with the analytics tools and cohort analysis and everything else that we're able to see, you know, what percentage email is having on a visit and a sale and everything else. And I think AI might be the special gift that keeps on giving there as well.

Joel Book 27:11

Well, I think the other thing, too, that I've seen is that, okay, here's the old cliche. The more things change, the more they stay the same. What I mean by that is all marketing has become direct. I know I referenced that earlier. But going back to attribution, you and I grew up in an era of direct marketing and direct response advertising where we wanted to be able to attribute the purchase of a product back to a specific channel or action that the customer took. So we would use promo codes or

Announcer 27:44

we

Joel Book 27:45

would invite the customer, register the product, and then give him or her a reason to register it.

Some of that's been lost. You know, if I would recommend one thing to marketing professionals today, I would say go back and read some of the great books on direct marketing. You know, read Strategic Database Marketing by Arthur Middleton Hughes. It's

Douglas Karr 28:13

on our

Joel Book 28:13

shelf. It still continues today to be one of the really great authoritative resources on marketing. And when I say all marketing has become direct, it's because today we need to be able to be smart about attributing purchases back to a specific channel or tactics so that we can know what works best. And that's why I think one of the best things marketers could do today, Doug, is go back to school on the principles, the fundamentals of effective direct marketing.

Douglas Karr 28:46

Yeah, and I think there's a pushback. You know, the pushback with consumers on privacy data and, you know, blocking, you know, cookies and everything else. Part of that was because marketers didn't utilize the data to make a great experience. If you're collecting all this data about me and you're not improving my customer experience, why am I giving you all my data, you know? And I think that as marketers, we're going through a time here, especially Europe, I think is a little bit ahead of us, where, you know, they're really starting to block a lot, you know, from marketers, you know, finding out this information. I

Joel Book 29:24

think they are, but one of the things that I have seen is that if you – some of the best data collection is that which is observational or behavior-based. Let me give you an example. One of the smartest users of our marketing technology at Salesforce is L'Oreal. Anybody listening to this broadcast will know that L'Oreal is one of the worldwide leaders in beauty products. They currently have about a 16% share. L'Oreal is not just one brand. It's a collection of brands, Kiehl's. One of the products I use daily is a L'Oreal brand. One of the things that L'Oreal as a consumer packaged goods marketer realized was that they didn't really have first-party data. They did not really have information about the individuals, primarily women, who were using their products. And one of the things that they accurately observed with the help of their agency, McCann, was that if they were going to be successful in increasing share of a consumer's purchases, you and I would recognize this as CLTV, customer lifetime value, that they needed to become much better at direct marketing. And so a little over three years ago, L'Oreal said, let's take one of our markets. And they started in Australia and New Zealand. And they said, let's put together a strategy that allows us to really learn more about our customers. Let's find a way to make it easy for them to engage with us so that we can begin to learn more about them. What they were basically saying is we want first-party data. And then we want to begin to use that to start to recommend products that we think would be really relevant to that consumer. Their strategy was brilliant. The tip of that spear, the focal point of the strategy, was a mobile app that they created called Makeup Genius. It's an app that literally allows the woman to scan her image into the app, and then she can select different products and literally through the app see how those products would appear on her face, how it would help her achieve the kind of beauty or the look that she was desiring. They developed the app. They tested it. Once they were ready for launch, they used social media advertising to promote it. When a woman would click on the ad on Facebook or Instagram or Pinterest, it would take her to a landing page where she was then exposed to the Makeup Genius app, invited to download it and install it. And in the process of doing so, she was invited to opt in to receive special promotions and offers from L'Oreal via email, as well as mobile push notifications, alerts that were product-specific. L'Oreal launched this in Australia and New Zealand. It became a phenomenal success. L'Oreal, in the span of three years, has now developed a one-to-one relationship with more than 50% of all of the users of its products in that marketplace. More importantly, they have now gone from being solely dependent on just brand advertising, Doug, and they are now an incredibly smart, savvy, direct marketer of L'Oreal products because they now have built this database of consumer information based on observing what products this particular customer is testing or evaluating through the Makeup Genius app.

Douglas Karr 33:08

Wow. And how many millions of dollars are they saving in surveys and focus groups?

Joel Book 33:16

It's phenomenal. And the other thing that they do that is so smart, once that L'Oreal customer achieves the level of beauty, and it's kind of that aha moment, you know, Google talks about these micro moments. What L'Oreal does is then invite her to share. Share your look via Facebook with your friends. And so they're now developing this multiplier effect of promotion because, as you know, your best customers, your best marketers are your customers.

Douglas Karr 33:47

Well, it's such a perfect example, too, though, of they are providing an incredible value to their consumer in trade, you know, for that data. You know? They are. So their customers don't mind because they're getting those offers that are specific and personalized. They

Joel Book 34:07

really are. But look at what L'Oreal is doing. They now have put themselves in a position where they can now cross-promote

Douglas Karr 34:12

different

Joel Book 34:13

brands to that consumer based on what they are learning about the consumer's skin type, color, dry skin versus oily, what specific products they like or prefer, and then they can cross-promote. And they're putting themselves, I think, in a great position to now start to maximize a greater share of that consumer's purchases. So that's what they're doing to compete.

Douglas Karr 34:38

That's fantastic. Wow. What a conversation. That was – I feel like we've summed up 41 years pretty good here.

Joel Book 34:48

Well, that's why I said at the beginning it's been such a privilege for me. And I don't mean that in a cavalier way. It's just been a privilege being a teacher and being able to share these examples with brands of what's possible and what are the smart brands doing.

Douglas Karr 35:07

Yeah.

Joel Book 35:07

And what are the components of a really successful digital marketing strategy. And that's been my job for 10 years at ExactTarget and then now the last four years at Salesforce. I could not have asked for a better way to cap off my career. It's just been a blessing.

Douglas Karr 35:27

Well, and coming from an ExactTarget and seeing Salesforce, they couldn't have had a better person working with them to drive the message forward.

Joel Book 35:35

Well, it's really kind of you to say that. We work very hard at Salesforce to bring products, to bring solutions to our customers that work together, that allow them to become very customer-focused. Of course, a lot of people listening to this broadcast will know that we refer to our collection, our portfolio of solutions as the customer success platform because what drives us is not just delivering great marketing technology over here and great customer service technology over here, but delivering to our customers a variety of different solutions that all work interchangeably together, that all share data, that allow the customer service people to have access to the same data that the marketing professionals have or the e-commerce professionals have because all of that, at the end of the day, is designed to deliver a unified customer experience.

Douglas Karr 36:34

Well, and it makes everybody's job internally easier when that data is in the right place, and it makes every customer experience that much more special because it's personalized and you have an empathetic person sitting on the other end of the phone. So it's such an essential piece of every size business, I think, nowadays.

Joel Book 36:58

It is. We have the good fortune of working with companies, B2C, B2B, nonprofits, associations, all sizes, and not all of our customers use all of our products the same way. Some specifically use Sales Cloud to automate sales. Others use Sales Cloud now in combination with Service Cloud or Marketing Cloud. You know, the reason that we acquired Demandware in 2016 was so that we would now have a state-of-the-art e-commerce solution that worked hand-in-glove with these other technologies. And so depending on what size company you are, what your needs are, how you want to serve your customers, engage with them, we have solutions that can scale to meet your needs.

Douglas Karr 37:49

And for those that are listening that have, you must be under a rock if you've never been to salesforce.com, but of course go to salesforce.com. If you're in Canada, of course, salesforce.ca. But visit on Twitter, Facebook. I would encourage everybody to sign up for their newsletters. They're absolutely amazing newsletters. There's almost million-dollar case studies every single week that come out of the engine that is Salesforce, and it's always fascinating information.

Joel Book 38:25

Well, we really try to give back. We really try to feed the appetite of individuals to learn more. Obviously, my area of expertise is in the marketing side. I would echo what you just advised your listeners. Visit the Salesforce Marketing Cloud blog. Opt in to receive the emails. You'll find access to great case studies, use cases. One of the other great podcasts that's also out there is called the Marketing Cloudcast, which is hosted by my good friend and colleague, Heike Young. And in that podcast, we typically feature interviews with some of our more progressive customers, and that's a great source of knowledge as well. So plenty of resources out there. I think if you're going to be an effective marketer today, you've got to be informed, and there's a wealth of information out there, both from Salesforce as well as other organizations out there.

Douglas Karr 39:24

Absolutely. Well, Joel, I can't thank you enough. It's a wonderful treat. And I'm glad I caught you before you ran off to Tahiti.

Joel Book 39:35

Thank you, Doug. It's been so good seeing you again. Thanks so much again for the invitation, and congratulations to you on all your success at DK New Media. Thank you, sir.

Announcer 39:47

The MarTech Interviews Podcast is recorded at DK New Media's state-of-the-art podcast studio at the Speakeasy in downtown Indianapolis. Subscribe at martech.zone. Sponsorships and marketing services are available through DKNewMedia.com.