Kris Reid, the Coolest Guy in SEO

Announcer 0:02

Welcome to the Marketing Technology Podcast. News, tools, and tips from marketing technology companies and the marketers using them.

Douglas Karr 0:10

Here's Douglas Karr. Hey, this is Doug Karr with another of our interview series with the Marketing Tech Blog. We have on the line all the way from Australia today. So good morning, good afternoon, good evening. I'm not sure which one it is. We have Kris Reid, known as the Coolest Guy in SEO. How did you wind up penning that name?

Kris Reid 0:33

Hey, Doug. Well, cool. Thank you very much for having me. Well, that actually just started off with one of our customers who's in Nashville, Tennessee. And Nashville's a cool guy, a cool town, and he's in the music industry. And I'm a computer geek. And he just started out teasing me and it went from there.

Douglas Karr 0:54

That's fantastic. Oh, my goodness. Yes. You know, you would just think with all of the SEO guys around, somebody would have thought of that, but you were first. So kudos to

Kris Reid 1:06

you. Thank you.

Douglas Karr 1:08

And I can't, well, honestly, it's not between us because it's on a podcast. There's not too many cool people in SEO.

Kris Reid 1:16

Yeah, that's well in the whole IT industry, unfortunately.

Douglas Karr 1:20

Yeah, exactly.

Kris Reid 1:20

We kind of get a bad name. Yeah.

Douglas Karr 1:24

Well, well, Kris really does have an amazing background. He backpacked around the world, which is just absolutely incredible. He was building an online game. Is that right, Kris?

Kris Reid 1:36

That's for sure. That's how I wound up in this industry.

Douglas Karr 1:38

Yeah. And then he wanted to start to see how Google ticked. And for six years now, his Ardor SEO, and you can visit them at ardorseo.com. They have been doing SEO for companies around the world. They have an SEO podcast that you can check out. They do reputation management, authority marketing, SEO. So ardorseo.com. And Kris, tell me a little bit about your journey from six years ago to now on what you guys are doing for customers.

Kris Reid 2:15

Yes. I mean, like super, super brief. I mean, I used to work in the financial markets as a software engineer, lost my job in the financial crisis, went backpacking for a couple of years, built an online game for a bit of fun, and started learning about SEO to learn how to promote my game. And then, well, being a software developer, I love building systems. So backlinks are really crucial to SEO. And so I built some software to manage backlinks for my customers. And then went, well, man, everyone needs backlinks. And who needs backlinks? Well, SEO companies need them the most. So we became the SEO guy's outsourcer. And we first opened up our office in Davao in the southern Philippines on the island of Minna now. And most recently, at the start of last year, we opened a second office in Phnom Penh, Cambodia, which is actually where I am right now.

Douglas Karr 3:15

Oh, fantastic. Wow. You truly are a world traveler. Thank

Kris Reid 3:19

you.

Douglas Karr 3:21

Well, and let's talk a little bit about that. Backlinking has obviously a good and a negative connotation nowadays. And the bad connotation is, of course, people just going out and buying a backlinker. And they don't really have maybe the content. They really don't have the authority. But they fake that authority online. And Google's really caught up with that type of backlinking. But what you're talking about is really the analysis behind how a company can build its authority online, right?

Kris Reid 3:57

For sure. I mean, so Larry Page, the co-founder of Google, his idea, the PageRank algorithm, which is still the fundamentals of Google, he figured that when you do a PhD and you write a thesis and other people reference your thesis, well, whoever has the most references must be the authority in that niche. And he figured, well, that must be the same with websites. Whoever's linking to a website, whatever website has the most links must be the authority in that niche. And, you know, Google's been perfecting that over and over the years. And they're certainly a lot better at it than they were. You know, it's start off that it was how much authority your site had. But then it was much more niche relevant. But then even where you're based. Like, for instance, we have a local customer here in Cambodia. And I can tell that the links from some, because, well, there's always the intention of search as well. So they do a river cruise here on the Mekong Delta. And someone in Cambodia searching for a Mekong cruise is really looking for someone local to, you know, jump on a boat, where someone in the UK or the US searching for a Mekong cruise is generally looking for information. And so the links that are even to those sites, so the UK sites generally rank better in the UK. And they're newspapers and things like that, because they have much more authority to British people, you know, where Google's also putting so much different weight on links. It gets pretty damn complicated, really.

Douglas Karr 5:34

Right. And it really does. And again, you know, for businesses listening, a lot of times they just don't even realize, they don't understand why they're not ranking. And this is where backlink research is absolutely critical. Because you can sit and kind of unwire and diagnose, you know, well, these people are ranking because of these sites that have recommended them and linked to them. And over time, you know, and with momentum, you know, this is where they're at. For sure.

Kris Reid 6:07

But one thing I think is really critical to think about with backlinks. So Google about, geez, what it was, it must have been three, three of maybe four years ago now, they brought out the Penguin algorithm update. And that was to catch people that are maliciously making backlinks to game the system. And it really brought the smack down. And it, Google didn't think too much about this, because it sprung up a whole new industry called negative SEO. So they would have a lot,

Douglas Karr 6:41

you

Kris Reid 6:41

know, artificial links. And so you could build links artificially to your competitors and get them penalized. And, you know, that opened up a whole new can of worms.

Douglas Karr 6:51

And,

Kris Reid 6:52

you know, Google did take a while to adjust, but they're certainly much better at it now.

Douglas Karr 6:56

And it is very hard to do negative SEO.

Kris Reid 6:59

And, well, and so it's not really an industry anymore, which is great.

Douglas Karr 7:02

Right.

Kris Reid 7:03

But what Google was trying to do with the Penguin algorithm update is to stop artificial link building, because it adds no value to internet. I mean, link building is still, you know, crucial, but you want to, you want to get links that are adding value. So if links are in good quality content on good quality sites, you know, I like to think of it as like a neighborhood, right?

Yeah, you, you want to be in a good neighborhood. So you, you want good people linking to you, you want nice houses next to you, you know, it's like, you don't want rubbish. So that's really what changed in the algorithm, not that links are bad or anything, and you shouldn't be acquiring links, they still mean the world, but you want to make sure you've got good quality links, which have good quality content behind them that are adding value to the internet and value to your brand.

Douglas Karr 7:57

That perfectly said. I couldn't agree with that more. And this, and therein is why you need someone that is just technically savvy, like a company like yourselves, is because you really need someone to unwire and, and, and diagnose. I said it, I said that before, but I'm going to say it again. You really do have to find out the keywords and why people are ranking on those keywords by researching the sites that mention them. And if you want to be more authoritative than them, obviously you've got to be on those sites as well, or, you know, uh, similar or even better authority sites. Yeah. A hundred percent.

Kris Reid 8:40

So, so just today, actually, we, uh, we did a competition analysis report for a big builder in Australia against two other big builders in Australia. And so we looked at

Douglas Karr 8:50

everything, you know, what products they have and

Kris Reid 8:52

you have, and you know, the quality of content on your site and social media and whatnot. But the factor that we did notice the most is their authority links. The other guys were just crushing them. They had so much, so much better linking strategy than these guys. And so it's like, no wonder you're winning.

Douglas Karr 9:07

Yeah. And this is, this is where PR comes into play as well, right? Um, that the opportunity to pitch those guests posts or pitch news, uh, and get on those authoritative sites is, is a critical factor after you're able to identify, you know, where you'd like the links.

Kris Reid 9:26

For sure. And especially in your niche as well, you know, if you, if you're a plumber and you can get a plumber magazine to link to you or whatever, you know, whatever's in your niche, that's awesome. Like if you've got, if you're a hairdresser and you've got a link from a real estate agent, it's really not going to, you know, Google's going to go, what's that all about? Because it just you really want to work with people in your industry and, you know, have authorities talk about you.

Announcer 9:52

Are you a marketing technology company looking to increase your market share? Contact Doug and his team at DK new media for information on their public relations, search engine marketing and content strategies, including a dedicated show on this podcast, email info at DK new media.com.

Douglas Karr 10:10

Two of the things I love, uh, the terminology that you're utilizing on your site, uh, as well, one is reputation engineering. And, um, uh, I, I haven't heard the term engineering before, but I love that you're utilizing those together. And so there are companies out there. In fact, we took care of a gentleman a while back. He was, uh, got into a political, um, uh, war where his company wound up getting investigated because the, the opposing, you know, political party and, uh, and he was put up on charges. And of course he was exonerated, but it didn't matter. Everybody that searched for his name or his business name, everything was about, you know, him getting charged. And so he had, you know, probably two pages that were just full of all of this negative information on the web. And it really paralyzed him from an industry standpoint, you know, doing business. And, and personally, you know, it was really bothering him because he was exonerated. And, and, uh, I know that, I know that the EU has looked at Google and said, you know, you, there should be a way for people to, to clean up their reputation online, especially when they are exonerated here in the U S and, and I think for the world currently, um, those things just stick. And especially some of the news sites are really authoritative. And so reputation, uh, engineering, you know, I, I love this because this is, you've got to really attack situations like this and build a reputation from the ground up that supersedes, you know, that negative information online. Can you talk a little bit more about that?

Kris Reid 11:48

Sure. I would, uh, this is a really good point. And I would get in there before anyone else does. I mean, cause if you've, if you get something bad press about you, whether it's true or not, there's sites out there like the ripoff report, which is a authoritative site and it's just absolute garbage.

Douglas Karr 12:10

Right.

Kris Reid 12:10

Anyone can go and post a comment on the ripoff report. There's no verification whether you were a customer of that person or anything's true, but it'll rank. And it's like, once it's there, it's really hard to get rid of. Right. So, I mean, one thing to protect your brand, the first thing you should do is get a Google alert, uh, put your name in there, put your, your company name in there, your products in there, or, you know, whatever's related to your brand. So that anyone that ever writes anything can Google picks it up. It'll let you know, but make sure that your stuff. So your story is being told, you know, make sure you've got your Facebook page, your Twitter account, your YouTube account already there. You've got like five, five of the top 10 picked up, you know, then, then hopefully you can get your LinkedIn or Vimeo, or, you know, there's, this is called parasite SEO. So you have all these other sites, the link to your business, but you own and you own the content, right?

Announcer 13:06

Right.

Kris Reid 13:06

So then someone's researching your, your business and they see your story and they, and they hear what you want them to hear rather than some idiot that's written something nasty on ripoff report. It can quite.

Douglas Karr 13:22

Oh, you just broke up.

Kris Reid 13:28

You're really protecting your brand and you've got your, you own the content. So, you know, get your YouTube, Vimeo, Twitter, your Facebook page, you know, try and, try and protect things before anyone else can, you know, get out there and say something bad, you know, because you never know who, who, who can say whatever.

Douglas Karr 13:45

Right. And, and, and you, you talked about, uh, uh, you mentioned parasite SEO and, and can you kind of explain that?

Kris Reid 13:55

So, I mean, that's just a term, uh, uh, like, you know, a parasite lives off the main entity. So parasite are your, your other, your other properties.

Douglas Karr 14:04

So exactly that. Okay. So that's where you're talking, get all of those profiles up, get them robust, get them, you know, detailed, um, and, and make sure now when, when you're working on sites, obviously backlinks are, are the, the gold standard. Um, are you also, you know, concerned with, uh, citations and that's, you know, business names, addresses, phone numbers, et cetera.

Kris Reid 14:28

A hundred percent for local SEO. Okay. So, I mean, local SEO is a really big difference for, you know, something that might be an online business, you know, how to, how to buy ski boots online or whatever, some, some Amazon shop. But the vast majority of businesses are small businesses and local, you know, a local plumber or a local electrician hairdresser, whatever they service their local area.

Douglas Karr 14:54

Right.

Kris Reid 14:54

And so that's local SEO, anything that's geographic started. You know, the best hairdresser in Boston or whatever.

Douglas Karr 15:01

And we always, we always tell people that, that, uh, you know, if you're known locally, that doesn't preclude you from being listed nationally as well. Right.

Kris Reid 15:11

For sure. But I mean, generally most local businesses aren't looking for a national listing. I mean, like, you know, if you're looking for a plumber, you're not going to grab one from New York if you're in California. Right. Right.

Douglas Karr 15:25

But if, if let's say our door SEO, you know, if our door SEO wants to be locally well known in Cambodia, that doesn't preclude your international presence either.

Kris Reid 15:36

Oh, for sure. For sure. Indeed. And so that's a, that's a different, I mean, that's a service based role, internet service based internet business. Yeah.

Douglas Karr 15:45

And then the other term, the other term that I love that you utilize is authority on your site. And I, and I, I can't, um, ex you know, I don't think we could talk about this enough in, in, in that's that backlinks provide authority, but authority, authority in and of itself is, you know, building that absolutely beautiful content that is going to sustain, you know, ranking and, and win ranking based because people are mentioning you on all of these sites. Right.

Kris Reid 16:15

Yeah, for sure. And it, and it builds up your credibility and trust. And so when people see whatever you, you are, you know, you're a wine dealer and they read you nice articles about how to pick a good wine, but when you need to get wine next time, you're going to go to the guy that you trust, who's the authority in your, your niche.

Douglas Karr 16:32

Yeah. And, and I, I, I tell people all the time that some, some of that is based on momentum as well. Right. I'm trying to get a fresh site to, to, to, to rank really well, a fresh domain that's brand new can be difficult if someone has sustained authority in, in that field.

Kris Reid 16:52

Yeah, for sure. Which is why you, you, you shouldn't really try and start off at the top. You know, it's, it, especially if you've got a brand new side or a brand new business, I mean, small businesses always come up and eat big business. It's just, you know, cause every business dies eventually. Right. You know, it might, might be a hundred years or 200 years, but eventually it's going to go and it'll be a small business that comes up and eats it alive cause it's more mobile, but they can't do that overnight. They have to nibble away at that industry. I mean, sure you get these giant powerhouses like Facebook that come out of nowhere, but you know, that's, that's not generally every business. Yeah.

Douglas Karr 17:31

I wish, right?

Kris Reid 17:34

Yeah. But, uh, so I think it's the same when you're doing SEO, right? Don't go after the big, you know, short tail keywords. Like, you know, if you're a plumber, don't go after plumbing, you know, go after plumbing in your local area or, or, you know, how to fix a toilet or, you know, sink repairs, Cincinnati or a smaller key phrase.

Announcer 17:56

Infographics and white papers continue to lead search and content strategies throughout the web.

Douglas Karr 18:18

And oftentimes those smaller key phrases are, are really targeted towards the intent of the buyer as well.

Kris Reid 18:25

Oh, for sure. They, they're generally actually a lot more valuable. I mean, cause you might have something hire an emergency plumber now, you know, like that's someone that's ready to hire a service, not like how to fix a toilet. Well, that's probably some handyman that's, you know, got to be a pain in the ass customer anyway.

Yeah.

Douglas Karr 18:47

Uh, it's, it's, it's refreshing. And I, and I mean this, it's refreshing to talk to SEO professionals that really understand this industry, um, for clients, you know, and, and I'd, I'd love to get your perspective on this is, uh, there's a lot of, you know, there's still a lot of those poor SEO companies that have the, you know, $99 three month program, you know, that is, uh, probably going to get you in a lot of trouble. You know, what, what do your engagements look like when you're speaking to a client about the longevity, the return on investment, you know, the, the patience that they need, all of those things.

Kris Reid 19:27

Well, I mean, I, I, I think those sort of $99 kind of deals are just ridiculous. Uh, you know, what sort of return do you hope to get on that or invest? Like most websites, you build a decent website, it's, you know, people can spend thousands of dollars on a decent website, you know, because you want it to look good. You want it to represent your brand and your company, everything you've worked so hard for. And, you know, a good way to think about it is like, you know, when you plant a tree, you know, if you're planning an orchard, you work really hard today and then you get to reap benefits of that tree for,

Douglas Karr 19:59

you know,

Kris Reid 20:00

many years to come. It gives you fruit every season. That's the same as a website. And that's just kind of the same as SEO as well. You know, it's, it's an investment in advertising. And so you certainly shouldn't go cheap, but you certainly should look for a return on your investment. And that's what we do try and do. The first thing we do when we see a customer is we have a questionnaire that we ask, which is really about their goals and intent. What do you want? What do you want from your website? What do you want customers to do? Do you want them to call you? Do you want them to join an email list? Do you want them live chat? Do you want them to learn about you? What's your intent? Uh, then talk about your services and products. What's important? Like, you know, a really good example is we've got a customer who does a printer repairs and we were going after the printer repairs keywords because they're much higher search volume and things like having a chat to him. And he's like, you know, plotter repairs is where I make all my money and plotter repairs has like, you know, a hundredth of the search volume because you know, these, these big things that no one uses, they're called wide format printers. Yeah. But you know, if that, if it's way more valuable to him, then let's focus on that. It's easier to anyway. So it's like, right.

Douglas Karr 21:18

Yeah.

Kris Reid 21:19

But it's really about knowing what your customer wants or knowing what their end goals are and then building a plan on how to achieve it. But again, SEO is like any other form of marketing, right? You need to get a return on that investment, whether you're spending $99 or $9,000. You want to be getting a return on that as quickly as possible. And that's certainly what we try and do to, well, you know, if you get a customer return on their investment, then everything else is gravy, right? So everyone's happy.

Douglas Karr 21:50

Yeah, exactly. Until they get that email from the shyster that says that, Hey, you don't rank and we could help you.

Kris Reid 21:58

Yeah. Oh man. I tell you like all those spammers, they, well, it must work or they'd stop doing it.

Douglas Karr 22:04

Well, I think, you know, the average business person is so concerned with their business that they really don't, they don't pay attention to all of the technical aspects of SEO. And, and this, these are the things that we're talking here. I love your analogy by the way of that orchard, because, you know, planting the tree is, is one thing, but then pruning it and carrying it and feeding it and, and, and everything else is, is quite another, I, that's a, I'm going to steal that from you if you don't mind. It's

Kris Reid 22:34

quite all right.

Douglas Karr 22:35

And, and, and Chris, you know, you talked about, and, and this really tells the tale for our listeners. The first thing that Chris said was, what are the goals of your website? If you have an SEO company that, you know, comes to you and says, Hey, you know, we think we can get you ranked well and everything else, but they don't ask that question first. I think that might be the first warning sign. Um, that is an outstanding question to ask because that's the measure of success on this, uh, is what do you want your website to do? And, uh, and, uh, just kudos to you again, um, for, for planting, uh, I'm going back to the analogy.

Kris Reid 23:16

Well, thanks Doug. But I mean, I, I just, I, that's a business principle that I learned is, well, that's how you keep customers happy, work out what they want and then achieve that. You know, if, if you're sitting there trying to, you think, you know what they want or whatever, even if you know the industry better and you're the professional and you go, Oh, this is what they need, but it's not what they want. Well, they're going to be unhappy anyway. Yeah. Well, sometimes you have to make a thin line because sometimes you do have to be a professional and go, well, this is where you're going to make more money, but that's a different story.

Douglas Karr 23:50

Absolutely. Absolutely. Um, and, and, uh, for folks listening, you have an offer to them today, right?

Kris Reid 23:57

Indeed I do. And dude, dude, for a special thank you for having me on your show. Uh, so what we do, uh, we, we provide SEO audits, which, uh, Google look at over 200, uh, rank signals to determine where your website should be. Everything from, uh, your metadata to your load, load speeds, SSL, mobile friendliness, internal link strategies, uh, outbound links, backlinks, uh, click through rates, bounce rates. And so we look at every single one of those and put together a report, which can, depending on how your site is, can be 60 to 80 pages long. It's a heap of work and it comes with a fairly nice price tag because it is a lot of work, but, uh, we're going to have a competition for your listeners. So, uh, there'll be a link in show notes. You can click on that and one of your, one of your listeners is going to win a free audit.

Douglas Karr 24:50

Oh, fantastic. I appreciate you doing that. That's, uh, and, and I, I, I love the thoroughness of what you're talking about there because you even talked about, you didn't just talk about the critical kind of elements of the website, um, cleanliness, if you will, you even talked about, you know, the engagement in the website. So this, I'm guessing that this is part analytics as well as part, you know, crawling the site and, and, and everything else.

Kris Reid 25:16

For sure. I mean, that's, you got to try and think what Google is, is trying to understand what humans are doing and what humans are looking for. And so if you can think of Google as like a, just a really smart human, then you, you give it all the signals that it's looking for to try and help it along the way and understand what your website is and what, who's looking for this data and how, you know, it is a machine. So it's not as smart as a human, but it's pretty good at collecting data. So if you think, if you feed it the right information, then it responds very nicely.

Douglas Karr 25:53

Yeah, absolutely. And, and there, there's, there's these elements, you know, onsite that I think a lot of people don't pay attention to, you know, we've, the marketing tech blog has been around for, uh, over a decade now, and it's really an amazing amount of work just to maintain that website. And that's about all these products and services and companies and people out there. And so we have outbound links galore on our site. And, and you would be surprised that after a year, you know, 20% of those outbound links go to 404 pages. And, and, uh, and so it's, it really is on a, on a monthly basis. We have to do incredible maintenance on our site and of course, client sites as well. But, and

Kris Reid 26:35

you just think, you think about why that's a bad thing

Douglas Karr 26:38

because

Kris Reid 26:39

Google, Google thinks about, well, that's probably going to be a bad user experience. If I send someone to this page and then they find the content on that good and it's broken link, well, that's, that's not going to be a good user experience. So I'll send them to this other site instead.

Douglas Karr 26:52

Yes, exactly. And, and you, you have, uh, on our door, you have some of these listed out, you know, internal broken links, uh, external broken links, orphan URLs, long URLs, duplicate URLs, internal duplicate content, which, uh, you know, is, is something, uh, I think some people, um, there was the inter, there was the duplicate content myth, uh, and the penalty, but a lot of people don't realize the internal duplicate content is bad just because you're competing with yourself,

Kris Reid 27:24

right? Yeah. Oh, for sure. Google doesn't know which page to rank.

Douglas Karr 27:27

It's,

Kris Reid 27:27

it doesn't know, it's exactly that you're competing with itself. It's, it gets confused.

Douglas Karr 27:32

Yep. And, and along with that is the duplicate metadata and titles that, that they're looking at, uh, external duplicate content. You mentioned again, you're competing with an external site. So, uh, and, uh, mobile, of course, mobile friendly responsiveness, uh, is absolutely critical nowadays. Uh, I think

Kris Reid 27:52

I, I tell you, I tell you what the, the 2016 mobile friendly is HTTPS. You really have an SSL certificate and I mean, we've, we've been, uh, doing tests recently of just converting sites to SSL. So the HTTPS and seeing significant increases in rankings with doing nothing else.

Douglas Karr 28:13

That's incredible. You know, the, and, and we did it on the marketing tech blog, I think, uh, as soon as Google started mentioning it and it's always, when they mentioned something, it usually becomes a fact. Yeah. Yeah. And we've seen significant. A little bit

Kris Reid 28:29

of a plug, but if you, if you need any help with HTTPS, uh, integration or checking your site for that to make sure you get the nice little green, uh, padlock there, you can check out our door secure.com.

Douglas Karr 28:40

Oh, nice. Fantastic. Ah, this is great. So our door secure.com. And then of course the, the company is our door SEO and our door SEO.com. We're going to have a link, uh, in this article when we publish it, uh, where you can go ahead and do a contest for a free, uh, comprehensive SEO report, uh, or SEO audit. Uh, so, so make sure that you, uh, make sure you click on it. I mean, you're just going to learn at least a dozen things that are, that could be fixed with your site. So, uh, if nothing else, just go for the contest. Uh,

Kris Reid 29:18

it's a, it's a hell of an order, man. I, I guarantee it at every site we've ever looked at, it doesn't matter how good you think it is that we'll find a gazillion things that need fixing.

Douglas Karr 29:30

And that's why SEO is a process. It's why it's not, it's not an event. You don't, you don't have some guy optimize your site in a month and it's done. You know, you really do need a team, uh, that's analyzing the site, analyzing your competitors, analyzing your analytics on an ongoing basis to help you build this authority. A

Kris Reid 29:50

hundred percent. You see what works and you keep on, keep on doing more of that.

Douglas Karr 29:53

Ah, this is the refreshing conversation, Chris, uh, Chris, where else can people find you online?

Kris Reid 29:59

Uh, well, you can get me at the, on Twitter at the coolest guy at SEO, or, uh, you can email me anytime. It's Chris with a K K R I S at outdoor SEO.com.

Douglas Karr 30:09

Fantastic. Chris, I, I, I can't thank you enough all the way from, uh, all the way from Cambodia. That might be our furthest, that might be our furthest podcast, uh, attendee now.

Kris Reid 30:20

Oh, uh, happy to be a part of it.

Douglas Karr 30:23

No, thank you so much for joining us. And, uh, and, uh, I, I don't think we have anything else to add that you've, you've really brought us through all of these different phases and, and, uh, and explained the industry so well. Thank you for taking the time.

Kris Reid 30:39

Cheers, doc. Thank you very much for having me.

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